Curse

Bryant Again · Jan 05, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

The existing players of Guild Wars will be a major contribution to the sales of Guild Wars 2, and thus it's not surprising that Anet creates a new option for the general population to enjoy Hard Mode, so that Anet can ensure these players to play until the release of Guild Wars 2;

And what about the large amount of players who are against it, including one of the top PvE alliances and a large amount of PvP players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

To be honest, the reason for implementing Hard Mode to be challenging is really your reason to play Hard Mode. However, for the rest of us, we have different reasons.

Why are you playing Hard Mode if you don't want a challenge? If you just wanted to kill time, or you were restricted on time, you could just as easily go into Normal mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Whether it's just time we are trying to kill or the few accomplishments we are trying to achieve, it does not affect you.

You're right, it doesn't. It affects the quality of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Anet spent months into making Hard Mode, and after it's release, hardly anyone plays or even tries it out. This leads me to a question, why implement Hard Mode for months just to satisfy a few people who are willing to try it, when you can satisfy the general public by making an additional expansion or campaign?

Because changing the difficulty of an area is a hell of a lot easier than creating a new campaign, the latter of which involves new voice acting, graphics, music, monsters, etc etc etc? Maybe they wanted to please those who found PvE too easy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Your so-called common players are really inexperienced or perhaps new comers, who still struggle in making builds. In all honesty, the general population I'm refering to is the casual players, which is the majority of the population, and as much as I know, they don't struggle in making builds.

Okay. Then why create a skill that doesn't require you to think up a build at all?

leprekan · Jan 05, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And what about the large amount of players who are against it, including one of the top PvE alliances and a large amount of PvP players?
Why are you playing Hard Mode if you don't want a challenge? If you just wanted to kill time, or you were restricted on time, you could just as easily go into Normal mode.
You're right, it doesn't. It affects the quality of the game.
Because changing the difficulty of an area is a hell of a lot easier than creating a new campaign, the latter of which involves new voice acting, graphics, music, monsters, etc etc etc? Maybe they wanted to please those who found PvE too easy?
Okay. Then why create a skill that doesn't require you to think up a build at all?

ROFL @ UB should be changed because a Guild is against it. Seriously, that takes the cake.

I was trying not to respond after I saw your "rangers make the best interrupters" comment .. figured if you hadn't found out about mesmers yet you were spending too much time here to talk sense to anyway. But WOW bringing that guild not liking UB in as a reason to nerf it .. *respect out the window*.

Show me how UB is having a negative impact on a game that is in a state of decline with NO new chapters coming. It isn't.

The only thing it has done is cause more people to actually PUG again. This is bad how?

Wanting people to get better? Please at least be honest about the motivation. Those that want it nerfed either NEED to feel superior or are protecting a farm. As I said before .. gw has the worst online community. Trying to act like you care if Timmy the noob gets better is the biggest line of crap since the Tooth Fairy.

Bryant Again · Jan 05, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

ROFL @ UB should be changed because a Guild is against it. Seriously, that takes the cake.

Given the fact that said alliance has quite a few respectable, mature and honest players, I would be slightly concerned. But yes in retrospect adding that comment was a little silly. I won't be suprised if anyone hits me low for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

I was trying not to respond after I saw your "rangers make the best interrupters" comment .. figured if you hadn't found out about mesmers yet you were spending too much time here to talk sense to anyway.

Refer to Avarre's wall o' text regarding the issue. TL;DR version: It's better to take a ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Show me how UB is having a negative impact on a game that is in a state of decline with NO new chapters coming.

The fact that the game needs to be dumbed down for people to play it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

The only thing it has done is cause more people to actually PUG again. This is bad how?

Caused people to pug again at what cost, though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Those that want it nerfed either NEED to feel superior or are protecting a farm.

If you refuse to see the reasons that have been posted before you then I guess I can't really comment any further.

leprekan · Jan 05, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Given the fact that said alliance has quite a few respectable, mature and honest players, I would be slightly concerned. But yes in retrospect adding that comment was a little silly. I won't be suprised if anyone hits me low for it.
Refer to Avarre's wall o' text regarding the issue. TL;DR version: It's better to take a ranger.
The fact that the game needs to be dumbed down for people to play it.
Caused people to pug again at what cost, though?
If you refuse to see the reasons that have been posted before you then I guess I can't really comment any further.

Sorry, still won't agree with rangers .. 6k of my fame came from interrupting .. as a ranger and a mesmer. Mesmer was better suited for the job imo. But whatever floats your boat.

The game doesn't need to be dumbed down .. it just took a skill that forced people to play together to get them to pug. Sorry again .. I don't see a downside to people actually learning to play with others.

Killing in gw is easy .. learning the patrol pathing and agro management is what separates the noobs from the rest. UB gives those new people a chance to learn just that .. patrol pathing and agro. Skill combos .. chimps with head wounds can learn .. look at the cookie cutter builds.

I have yet to see one good reason for the UB hate in an instanced game.

Tyla · Jan 05, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry, still won't agree with rangers .. 6k of my fame came from interrupting .. as a ranger and a mesmer. Mesmer was better suited for the job imo. But whatever floats your boat.

I don't believe you.
D-Shot is not elite, costs less energy...
PD is elite and costs more energy...
The majority of mesmer interrupts only effect spells.
How is mesmer better suited for the job...?

Quote:

The game doesn't need to be dumbed down .. it just took a skill that forced people to play together to get them to pug. Sorry again .. I don't see a downside to people actually learning to play with others.

Learning? You mean the old-fashion way when it was only Prophecies and Factions?
Learning to play with each other = skill spamming?

Quote:

Killing in gw is easy .. learning the patrol pathing and agro management is what separates the noobs from the rest. UB gives those new people a chance to learn just that .. patrol pathing and agro. Skill combos .. chimps with head wounds can learn .. look at the cookie cutter builds.

Cookie cutter builds are bad, and they dont have combos...theyre just builds made out of enchantments thats overused and outdated.
It teaches nothing, and Ursanway doesn't teach ANYTHING about Agro management and Patrols, its just a mindless killfest which is spamming skills.

Quote:

I have yet to see one good reason for the UB hate in an instanced game.

Because its oblivious to what Guild Wars is SUPPOSED to be?
Skill>Time is what it is said to be as i recall.

Bryant Again · Jan 05, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry, still won't agree with rangers .. 6k of my fame came from interrupting .. as a ranger and a mesmer. Mesmer was better suited for the job imo. But whatever floats your boat.

Dunno why you're commenting on fame since at the top it says "State Of The Mesmer - PvE." PvP is entirely different, and even less relevant with this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

The game doesn't need to be dumbed down .. it just took a skill that forced people to play together to get them to pug.

It took a skill that almost entirely disregarded build set up, the most complex and challenging aspect of Guild Wars. Right there was it dumbed down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry again .. I don't see a downside to people actually learning to play with others.

It is pretty cool that people are playing together, but under these circumstances I have to disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Killing in gw is easy .. learning the patrol pathing and agro management is what separates the noobs from the rest. UB gives those new people a chance to learn just that .. patrol pathing and agro.

UB is a good training mode, and I agree. I use it on rare occassion in that sense, and only for a few moments. Part of the problem, however, is that most people won't see it as such. They'll see it as *the* way to get things done. Not to mention that UB doesn't require a heavy focus on aggro management in the first place.

leprekan · Jan 05, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

I don't believe you.
D-Shot is not elite, costs less energy...
PD is elite and costs more energy...
The majority of mesmer interrupts only effect spells.
How is mesmer better suited for the job...?

Learning? You mean the old-fashion way when it was only Prophecies and Factions?
Learning to play with each other = skill spamming?

Cookie cutter builds are bad, and they dont have combos...theyre just builds made out of enchantments thats overused and outdated.
It teaches nothing, and Ursanway doesn't teach ANYTHING about Agro management and Patrols, its just a mindless killfest which is spamming skills.

Because its oblivious to what Guild Wars is SUPPOSED to be?
Skill>Time is what it is said to be as i recall.

Sorry, as I said "imo". Judging by your class listed on the left .. bias might be an issue on that topic

No .. learning how to work together .. not skill spamming. UB is most effective when used as a group to kill a target.

"Cookie cutter builds are bad" .. Uh sorry to burst your bubble but there are no original builds left. If you think that original bar you made is original .. you are in denial. After 32 months it is safe to say someone else has tried it. Those cookie cutter builds rose to the top because they were effective .. not "bad".

Mindless killfest UB groups tend to be epic fails due to over agro. So yes Virginia .. patrol pathing and agro management does have to be learned.

You mean what YOU feel Guild wars is supposed to be. Dare I point out that the people that MADE the game MADE the skill you loathe.

No matter how much venom you interject .. you have yet to make a good reason on the need to remove/nerf this skill. This is an instanced game .. don't like it then zone.

Bryant Again · Jan 05, 2008, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry, as I said "imo". Judging by your class listed on the left .. bias might be an issue on that topic

The one who wrote that article I linked, Avarre, plays the Mesmer the most in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

No .. learning how to work together .. not skill spamming. UB is most effective when used as a group to kill a target.

UB is bad in this respect. It teaches "The more of this we got, the better it'll be." It should be about mixing professions, knowing how many of each you'll need, and the builds that each profession should run - not that everyone should run the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

"Cookie cutter builds are bad" .. Uh sorry to burst your bubble but there are no original builds left. If you think that original bar you made is original .. you are in denial. After 32 months it is safe to say someone else has tried it. Those cookie cutter builds rose to the top because they were effective .. not "bad".

When the term "cookie cutter" is used, it usually applies to the Trinity and to tanking. In this application, that is correct: The trinity is very inefficent and is usually the "last resort" or the "I have no idea what to do" approach. You know it's going to be a slow and boring time when someone asks "who's tanking?", which is what the Trinity bases itself around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You mean what YOU feel Guild wars is supposed to be. Dare I point out that the people that MADE the game MADE the skill you loathe.

That there-in lies the confusion of the problem: Why would the developers track back on the one thing that made Guild Wars stand out so well? "Times have changed", sure, but that's not a good excuse to downgrade your product.

Hope it's okay I mentioned you, Avarre : \ I see you readin'.

Avarre · Jan 05, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Sorry, still won't agree with rangers .. 6k of my fame came from interrupting .. as a ranger and a mesmer. Mesmer was better suited for the job imo. But whatever floats your boat.

It depends on the game type. In PvE, Ranger interrupts are better than Mesmer ones, with the possible exception of Cry of Frustration. This doesn't make up for the ability to spread dazed, however, which can provide better shutdown and compensate for faster cast rates in HM.

Quote:

You mean what YOU feel Guild wars is supposed to be. Dare I point out that the people that MADE the game MADE the skill you loathe.

That's like saying pre-NF D/Mos were good and proper because they were created by the developers.

This thread is hilarious, by the way. It is reaching the end of its lifespan though. But not yet.

leprekan · Jan 05, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The one who wrote that article I linked, Avarre, plays the Mesmer the most in PvE.
UB is bad in this respect. It teaches "The more of this we got, the better it'll be." It should be about mixing professions, knowing how many of each you'll need, and the builds that each profession should run - not that everyone should run the same thing.

When the term "cookie cutter" is used, it usually applies to the Trinity and to tanking. In this application, that is correct: The trinity is very inefficent and is usually the "last resort" or the "I have no idea what to do" approach. You know it's going to be a slow and boring time when someone asks "who's tanking?", which is what the Trinity bases itself around.

That there-in lies the confusion of the problem: Why would the developers track back on the one thing that made Guild Wars stand out so well? "Times have changed", sure, but that's not a good excuse to downgrade your product.

Hope it's okay I mentioned you, Avarre : \ I see you readin'.

Ty for replying to my response to Tyla

LOL. You don't have a class listed should have been a give away it wasn't to you. Sorry, never read her/his thoughts on interrupting. Just responding from personal experience to your mention of it.

Shocking .. I disagree on what UB teaches. It does force groups of people to learn to work together and target priority. It even forces them to learn patrol pathing or they will be back in dis 1. Teaches imo the most important thing .. how to work together. What skills work together is a url away if they have any doubts after the important things are learned.

You keep acting like there are tens of thousands of new people coming to the game that are being led down the road to noobville with UB. Those same noobs have to complete a chapter and get half way into EOTN to get the skill. I trust they have figured out by then that other skills work. Not to mention that an all warrior group hasn't worked since they killed iway. Perhaps you are reaching a tad on those reasons.

"Cookie cutter" is any generic farm build to me. Not the holy trinity. Even the other over powered pve only skill builds .. are cookie cutter. Any chimp can run them. This is gw not rocket science.

You people really need to rethink the skill>time defense. This is a game that everyone knows is on the down hill slope. The devs actually threw something in that got people to pug again. I call it a win. They understand that if you don't like it you don't have to be in the same instance with it. What is so difficult to grasp about that?

DivineEnvoy · Jan 05, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And what about the large amount of players who are against it, including one of the top PvE alliances and a large amount of PvP players?

What is this large amount of PvP players, and what do they have against a PvE-only skill here being overpowered, which can only be used in PvE? I fail to see how that's relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Why are you playing Hard Mode if you don't want a challenge? If you just wanted to kill time, or you were restricted on time, you could just as easily go into Normal mode.

I beat everything on Normal mode, but I don't have enough time to do things on Hard mode without PvE-only skills. And so why can't I play Hard Mode with PvE-only skills? Do I have to repeat everything I have done in Normal mode just because it doesn't fit your standards?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You're right, it doesn't. It affects the quality of the game.

That's a matter of opinion, isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Because changing the difficulty of an area is a hell of a lot easier than creating a new campaign, the latter of which involves new voice acting, graphics, music, monsters, etc etc etc? Maybe they wanted to please those who found PvE too easy?

The answer is, they want the mass population to continue playing by creating something different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Okay. Then why create a skill that doesn't require you to think up a build at all?

Like I said, there's a site named PvXwiki where you can take a build in matter of seconds by loading a template. What's really the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

UB is bad in this respect. It teaches "The more of this we got, the better it'll be." It should be about mixing professions, knowing how many of each you'll need, and the builds that each profession should run - not that everyone should run the same thing.

In all honesty, no one can control how much a person learns, despite the learning methods, or else nearly 90% of the world population would have been university graduates. In this case, there's really no difference between Ursan or cookie-cutter builds, but the disadvantages and discriminations certain classes get. If we lower everyone's learning ability to the minimum, we can see what you mean by Ursan destroying the game as everyone will denote Ursan as the way to go. However, with this said, we can also see that everyone will denote Mesmers or Ritualists or any professions that do not fit in a cookie-cutters build as useless piece of junk that they should never take into their groups. Both situations are destroying the game, but the former is a better situation. Nevertheless, you got to give people some credits for their intelligent, and to be honest, neither situation really exist to the extend we have to run for our lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That there-in lies the confusion of the problem: Why would the developers track back on the one thing that made Guild Wars stand out so well? "Times have changed", sure, but that's not a good excuse to downgrade your product.

To be honest, Ursan isn't really powerful enough to downgrade Guild Wars. Just look at the recent Wintersday.

Bryant Again · Jan 05, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

What is this large amount of PvP players, and what do they have against a PvE-only skill here being overpowered, which can only be used in PvE? I fail to see how that's relevant.

It's the fact that PvPers are actually questioning the skill when most of the time they could give less of a shit about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

I beat everything on Normal mode, but I don't have enough time to do things on Hard mode without PvE-only skills.

There's a large difference between using PvE skills and Ursan Blessing. At least with PvE skills there was still some thought that went into your build. Not so much with UB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

And so why can't I play Hard Mode with PvE-only skills? Do I have to repeat everything I have done in Normal mode just because it doesn't fit your standards?

I'd have to ask what Hard Mode has to offer you that Normal Mode doesn't?

And also, how long did these groups take?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

That's a matter of opinion, isn't it?

Indeed. The question is, which opinion is more backed up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

The answer is, they want the mass population to continue playing by creating something different.

i.e. by dumbing down the difficulty? That's a pretty iffy move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Like I said, there's a site named PvXwiki where you can take a build in matter of seconds by loading a template. What's really the difference?

Each build plays differently, requires different skills, etc. UB just requires a quest, and everyone uses it the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

To be honest, Ursan isn't really powerful enough to downgrade Guild Wars. Just look at the recent Wintersday.

To be just as unrelated, to you catch the lesser number of districts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Shocking .. I disagree on what UB teaches. It does force groups of people to learn to work together and target priority. It even forces them to learn patrol pathing or they will be back in dis 1. Teaches imo the most important thing .. how to work together.

Pathing is important, this I won't deny. However, so are learning to cooperate with different professions and having all of your builds cling perfectly or at least well enough - UB denies this.

And there's not much to learn using Ursan when all someone has to do is either A. Ctrl + T or B. T + Space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

What skills work together is a url away if they have any doubts after the important things are learned.

Those give you builds, not how well build X works with build Y. That's what should be encouraged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You keep acting like there are tens of thousands of new people coming to the game that are being led down the road to noobville with UB. Those same noobs have to complete a chapter and get half way into EOTN to get the skill. I trust they have figured out by then that other skills work. Not to mention that an all warrior group hasn't worked since they killed iway. Perhaps you are reaching a tad on those reasons.

Acquisition is actually rather early. After Blood Washes Blood, it's just a fetch quest where you pick up a thing of honey and scare away pansy-assed hunters as a polar bear follows you.

All builds take some time to get all the skills together and the like, and it doesn't help that UB takes the least amount of work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You people really need to rethink the skill>time defense. This is a game that everyone knows is on the down hill slope. The devs actually threw something in that got people to pug again. I call it a win.

But how far will you draw the line? Would it be okay if 100k dropped from each killed monster as long as you had an all human party?

upier · Jan 05, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How would you "balance" PvE? I'm not saying "How could you do such a thing!!!" but I'm asking what you would do.

Personally I'd leave normal mode in it's broken self.
It's fun - and I really don't need to play mesmers in PvE.

Hard mode would actually require some work.
Dump smitters as the only monks in the opposing team, 8 skills including a rez, increase the aggro bubble (just because it's insane that we can actually see the foes miles away, then get on the edge of their aggro and start nuking them before they even know that we are there), patrols, pop-ups, normal casting speed and normal attribute points allocation, ... and let's not forget - after every skill balance - review the skillbars and change them accordingly.
Would it require more work?
Yeah it would. But then again - it seems that A.Net is all about good gaming design. So I am pretty sure they'd LOVE to do it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And what about the large amount of players who are against it, including one of the top PvE alliances and a large amount of PvP players?

What about the phrase "PvE-ONLY skills" sends out the message that the opinion of PvP players should matter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Eh?
FoW.

People FoW with 3 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

They suck at it and think they're the best.
Agreed on not having the option to, but again: FoW.
And the bad won't even make an effort to become better.

That influences you ... how?
You have your own instance.
You can be as pro in it as the instance can handle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Ursan made PvE even more rediculously easy than it already is, and to boot people expect you to grind grind grind until its R10 anyway.
Trying to PuG FoW has never been harder. And nobody even does Trapping anymore: And that affects me and has changed something for me.

Start your own teams.
Play with guildies.

Or are we saying that because SF runs were used to done by the holy trinity - we should ... like remove the necros from the game so that the mesmer could tag along?

DivineEnvoy · Jan 05, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's the fact that PvPers are actually questioning the skill when most of the time they could give less of a shit about it.

Personally I have a few friends who are in the top PvP guilds, and as far as I know, they see Ursan just another skill people use. Perhaps not all the PvP players have the same standard, but would you point out how exactly do these people question the use of Ursan, and how does a PvE-only skill such as Ursan affect people who play PvP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

There's a large difference between using PvE skills and Ursan Blessing. At least with PvE skills there was still some thought that went into your build. Not so much with UB.

You don't use Ursan at all, do you? It certainly seems not. It amazes me how after so long, people are still able to have this ignorant view to how Ursan being god-mode, and all you have to do is bring Ursan to any given areas, and you can succeed. That view is false. The fact is, you still the need to conduct energy management to maintain the skill. Despite the amount of possible energy management being available, if energy is not stored properly or a possible e-drain mob exists, that will be another 30 seconds recharge. And when you rely heavily on Ursan or when you team up with other players who just want to get things done, and you don't have a series of useful skills without Ursan, you are nothing more than a standing meat shield.

I can tell that you have this other ignorant view that Ursan users are just a bunch of inexperienced players who cannot make builds. The fact is, in order to get a group in certain areas where your profession is unwanted, you can use Ursan. Also, there are times when you wish to finish a task with a limited amount of play time, Ursan will also become an option for that. Just because we choose to play the game in a way that suits us, it doesn't mean we are inexperienced players. However, with this said, I'm not denying that there are inexperienced players who use Ursan to get through certain areas, but it does not justify your assumption that all Ursan players are inexperienced and unable to make efficient builds.

I believe you also have this ignorant view to how Ursan can complete any given areas under a 100% percentage success rate. The fact is, when you see Ursanways forming, and many people claiming that they have accomplished certain places with Ursan, you automatically assumed that all these groups have succeeded as the number of success have been increasing. The truth is, as more people are making groups in these areas, the number of people in these areas are increasing, and thus the number of successful completions of certain areas will increase as well. Relevantly, people do fail with Ursan, whether it's a bad aggro or a poor way of using it, the possibility for them to reveal that is incredibly low. Hence, it is likely that you assumed that Ursanway will always grant players success as the number of successful completions increases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I'd have to ask what Hard Mode has to offer you that Normal Mode doesn't?

Vanquish titles, guardian titles, all six reputation titles, Grand Master of the North.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And also, how long did these groups take?

Five to six hours and two hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Indeed. The question is, which opinion is more backed up?

That depends on what you mean by more backed up. If you believe that more backed up means your perspective is more backed up than ours no matter how many valid points we make, then I would say in that sense, your opinion is more backed up. However, if your opinion is truly as worthy and strong as you believe, why hasn't Anet made any nerfs to Ursan?

Just a note, the previous update to Ursan was just an adjustment, not a nerf, as Ursan did not perform as intended outside the mission, Blood Washes Blood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

i.e. by dumbing down the difficulty? That's a pretty iffy move.

It got more people to play. Do you have a better idea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Each build plays differently, requires different skills, etc. UB just requires a quest, and everyone uses it the same.

Interestingly how you say everyone uses Ursan the same, when this thread is really about how people use Ursan differently and sharing their ways of using Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

To be just as unrelated, to you catch the lesser number of districts?

Guess you did not see my point there. My point is, if you claim that Ursan is just a bad idea, which will destroy the game, there are other threats in destroying Guild Wars, and some of them are causing more damage. A good example would be the recent Wintersday.

GrimEye · Jan 05, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

It's funny how people use dumbing down of the skill bar build concept as an excuse why Ursan is bad.

Even before Ursan, this has been the line taken by some people.

If I use builds outside PvXWiki, you get called as noob.
If I use builds from PvXWiki, you get called cookie-clutter user.

Raise your hand if anyone DONT HAVE ANY cookie-cutter build in their template? PVE or PVP. And its worst in PVP, where people are limited - literally by the fingers in your hands, for each profession - what effective builds you can bring in the arena.

Quote:

There's a large difference between using PvE skills and Ursan Blessing. At least with PvE skills there was still some thought that went into your build. Not so much with UB.

Another presumption gone wrong.

Being a Ritualist, I have this build called URSAN Spirit. I bring 3 lost-lasting spirit: Pain, Bloodsong, and Vampirism which, if place in the right position, can last for 2 minutes. I bring painful bond too. Once the spirits are in place and painful bond cast, I go Ursan. The enemies are weaken, the allies get damage buff. If we are taking too much damage, I turned to my original skill, and help with healing.

And I have other URSAN Rit build when I H/H. I have other Ursan Rit build because its the RITUALIST part in my build which determines whether I can succeed on one area or not. It's my judgement call when to use URSAN or when not to use it.

(My URSAN Rit builds are not in PVXWiki so anyone can call it noob build to their hearts delight)

Ursan is not even a guarantee of success if you choose the wrong heroes, choose the wrong skills for heroes, stupidly rush into the mobs, and brought wrongs skills for the missions. Ursan, if use improperly and untimely, can get you killed fast in the wrong kind of mobs.

In many occasion, I have to do the mission several times, simply to configure heroes, hench choice, and other skills outside Ursan to succeed.

I have this feeling the Ursan Blessing is viewed as overpowered because their view comes from heresay.

Also, if I have 4+ real player in a party, I dont use ursan if not asked. I have to agree, that in party where 5-8 people are using Ursan, one can really steam roll a mission - if you can find that many people in HM pug. If you're in a guild party, then tell your guildies not to use Ursan.

*****

Point A to Point B is 20 miles. One can decide to walk that 20 miles reasoning he can enjoy and appreciate view. One can decide to use a car reasoning one have more time to go Point C as well.

Are people dumber because they used cars? Are people dumber if they order pizza outside rather than bake it themselves? Are people dumber because they use hammer rather their hands to sink in that nail?

"Ursan is destroying the concept of skill bar building" can sound almost like anything it ends up meaning nothing with ambiguity.

Farmers are destroying the economy. PVE is destroying PVP. PVP is destroying PVE. Hero is destroying camaraderie. PUGS are destroying the party. Nerf this. Why did you Nerf this.

My take.

Kusandaa · Jan 05, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

It's funny how people use dumbing down of the skill bar build concept as an excuse why Ursan is bad.

Even before Ursan, this has been the line taken by some people.

If I use builds outside PvXWiki, you get called as noob.
If I use builds from PvXWiki, you get called cookie-clutter user.

Raise your hand if anyone DONT HAVE ANY cookie-cutter build in their template? PVE or PVP. And its worst in PVP, where people are limited - literally by the fingers in your hands, for each profession - what effective builds you can bring in the arena.

I agree with you, we're all noobs no matter what we do. It's reduce to "who's the most noob" and "who's the most noob amongst the most noob players". Pot calling the kettle black...

Oh and BTW, to answer your question, yes sometimes I use cookie cutter... because it's effective for the area I'm in (b/p in ToPK, an example). However, if I form a FoW group, I can guarantee you there isn't gonna be a bonder. I find a ZB prot much more flexible for the area, and I get called a noob for running it instead of a bonder.

People can run the way they want in their group, I don't care. It's their group, their map, I'm not with them. However, with me, as long as it's effective for the area we're in, you're more than welcome. Don't tell me in local I need a bonder for a 8-man run with a D/E VOS tank... because...

I don't care. I seriously don't care. Am I telling you to take such and such while I'm not even in your group? No? Then you know what to do.

Same thing with Ursan. Stop whining because you're not using it. Form with your friends, your alliance, request that no one uses ursan in your groups... I don't care. Do what you want, it's YOUR group!

Jaceb · Jan 05, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I basically ignore that skills existance but those that like it & use it, good for them. TnTF spam is already enough to gimp pve for the duration.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 05, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Is the point of Guildwars farming?

If you answer yes to that question, then you like Ursan Blessing, because it makes hardmode farming easy. You don't have to compose a skill bar, don't have to compose a team, don't have to plan battles (other than make sure there's not too long delay between fights), and don't have to time or plan the use of skills. UB simply makes farming easy.

If you answer no to that question, then you don't like Ursan Blessing, because it removes the need to compose a skill bar, removes the need compose a team build, removes the need to plan battles tactically, and even removes the need to time the use of skills - with UB you just click them whenever they recharge, in whichever order. UB simply removes all skill & challenge, all that's GW is supposed to be about.

Personally, as I've said, I consider farmers to be the bane and scourge of Guildwars, and so I despise Ursan Blessing and the people using it. It is without doubt the most broken skill in all of GW history.

AceeBlueEagle · Jan 05, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Geez, between the rants on this, the rants on the hats, the rants on the bears, the rants on Wintersday event.....

You people need to put down the keyboard, turn off the computer and go outside.

Better yet, DON'T BUY GW2. Save your money and get a good therapist.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 05, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

...he said with a rant.

Personally I think Ursan Blessing came into existence because ANet has become confused about their "elite" content.
They got a lot of complaints about poor drops and lacking challenge wrt the standard content, so they created "elite" areas - UW, FoW, Urgoz etc etc etc - but to their astonishment found that just a few percent of guild warriors played there. All the work which went into making that content was pretty much wasted! Aha, they thought, it must be because access is limited! So they made access easier and created hardmode, which everyone can get in to and which has normal drops (while normal mode got poor drops).

And found to their astonishment that few people played that EITHER, and those few who did were the same guys who played the earlier elite areas, and the same guys who complained about access to those elite areas!

Aha, Anet thinks, we made the elite content too hard! PvE players are idiots and unable to compose a usable skillbar or team build, idiots who just like to rush! And so they create Ursan Blessing, which makes hardmode easy by providing a full bar of overpowered skills tailored to rushing.

And now they'll find that the same people who over and over played the earlier elite areas and hardmode are the same guys using Ursan Blessing: farmers.

ANets problem is that they're listening to farmers. They should never, ever, do that, because what farmers want is easy grinding for loot.